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A new period? Are you nuts?

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4:39 pm
January 4, 2010


Gustav

Moderator

posts 265

1

Post edited 7:46 pm - January 4, 2010 by Gustav


As I mentioned in my e-mail, CTRF wants us to do something more in line with Robin Hood for their May show. Please share your thoughts here. We will discuss this on Saturday at 12th night.

4:49 pm
January 4, 2010


Alena

Moderator

New Hampshire

posts 163

2

Post edited 4:52 pm - January 4, 2010 by Alena


Julie so called it!


I am still thinking about whether or not this is possible, but meanwhile I've been daydreaming about the possibilities for a late 12th, early 13th century English Encampment. Here are my initial thoughts: 

1.A pilgrimage (or group on a pilgrimage) – This could either be in the late 12th C. but might be better in the mid-13th c. then we can be Chaucerian!
Pros –
-Easy to research (Chaucer and all that)
-Can portray any and all classes of people, especially middle class, both men and women.
-Pilgrims are necessarily visitors, which can make portrayal easier
Cons –
-It might not tie in directly to the Robin Hood theme.

2.A Noble Household – There are tons of reasons for nobles to travel, not the least of which is to visit with other nobles.
Pros –
-We already know quite a bit about noble life, and it is easy to research.
-We would not have to tie in too directly to any plot.
-We can talk about knights, swords, armor.
-Women fit right in with the traveling and all that.
Cons –
-nobility is always more expensive to portray, we’d need more costumes & props.

3.A crusade – either coming or going the crusades were a large part of the Robin Hood/Richard the Lionheart story.
Pros –
-Wicked popular.
-There is still swords and armor.
-We could either be recruiting on our way out, or (better in my opinion) returning with all the Arabian knowledge, stories etc .
Cons –
-I’m not sure how women fit in to the crusades,
-This might feel a little too much like the Landsknecht

4.Recently made outlaw - merry men and all that.
Pros –
-Ties in with the theme.
-Generally lower-class and in dire straits, so not as expensive to portray.
Cons –
-we’d have direct links to the cast and plot, which can be a headache,
-we are not law-abiding, could not interact with officials without resorting to renfaire tactics.
-While some outlawry is historical, I am not sure we can justify a historical portrayal of an entire group.

Anyone else have any theme ideas? Whether or not we actually end up doing it for this coming May is a question I'll address in another post.


5:18 pm
January 4, 2010


Pyrate

Member

Maine

posts 113

3

I think I would like to do this. Where is it happening? On the same faire grounds? How many weekends?

I like the idea of the crusade, but as you said I'm not sure how women would play into that. But it would fit into the plot with out tying into it. Could the women be spoils of war? I have a *few* Turkish pieces, and they really aren't that hard to make. It would take bit more research, but so would anything.

I also like the traveling nobility household, could we have set it up that we were being kept in Sherwood because we're Rich without playing to much into their plot? I also suppose this depends on if the faire takes place in the forest, or Nottingham.

Could we simply do a “Robbers Encampment” welcoming all outlaws and the oppressed? That way it sets us up as a place of refuge for the robin hood crew, without making us characters within the plot?

7:42 pm
January 4, 2010


Amanda

Member

posts 113

4

Spring Dates: May 8, 9, 15, 16, 22, 23 - 2010


The crusade idea sounds interesting, but very similar to what we already do.  It would be nice do something different that would allow the women more of chance to shine.  For that reason I prefer the pilgrimage or Noble household ideas.  I'm happy to put the effort into noble costumes.  I enjoy the challenge.  While the outlaw encampment would be fun and fit with the story, it does make for complicated planning and cast interactions.  I think that would need to be run by who ever is doing the cast side of things.

9:55 pm
January 4, 2010


Ulrich

Member

posts 53

5

I am intrigued by the idea. If I am able I would like to be involved. Let me give some thought to ideas.


I like all the suggestions and the pros and cons behind them all make sense. Hard to decide. 


Budget would be a big determination for me but I may already have a lot that works.


A good question to ask, within each idea, what would we be able to produce as demonstrations for the enlightenment and entertainment of the public? What do we do now that could be used with variation so we are not starting from scratch? or do we want to try something completely different?


Can we put something together that would be as impressive as what we already did? Is it worth doing if we can't?


We could work almost any of those ideas into the show, depeding on what they decide for their plot and story line? How much do we want to interact with the cast/plot?


I'm tired. Need more time to brainstorm…should be a good discussion Saturday.


A lot to think about.

8:34 am
January 5, 2010


Gustav

Moderator

posts 265

6

Just a note on the “actual” time period of the Robin Hood legend. While we now associate Robin Hood with Richard the Lion Hearted, the most likely basis for the legend seems to be Roger Godberd, who was an outlaw living in Sherwood Forest during the 1260's and who was sought by the Sheriff of Nottingham. He is later captured and jailed for 3 years but is pardoned by King Edward I on his return from the Eighth Crusade (sounds pretty familiar, huh?)

I'm tring to get some clarification as to what exact year the story is being set in. Based on the script writer, it will likely be more like the modern tellings, which would place it at the end of the 12th century. Of course, we do Landsknecht during an Arthurian faire and no one questions us, so it is likely we could be 100 years off with even less issue. Just something to keep in mind.


10:42 am
January 5, 2010


Fritz

Moderator

posts 41

7

Some thoughts:


I think Ulrich hit the nail on the head. One of our biggest (if not our biggest) concerns should be: what can we pull off that will be entertaining for an audience? The ideas that folks have tossed out there are all intriguing, but I think we need to determine where the best balance between feasibility and entertainment value lies. We could have the coolest-looking bunch of traveling nobles, or the baddest brigand encampment around, but if we're not doing something that people will want to look at, we will have failed.


We can certainly do many of our cooking demonstrations. We may need to find some older recipes, but at the end of the day, chicken on the string stops passers-by. Yeah, most of our cast iron cookware is by this point nearly half a century too early, but who's likely to notice?


The medicine show is workable in a 13th century setting, so we're probably good to go there.


Unfortunately, our most glamorous show, the weapons demo, is something of a non-starter (No muskets? Neiiiiiiinnnnn!!!). Stephen/Alena, can we do the standard ATACC arming demo? That should be generally suitable. If folks have period bows, we could include archery in the demo.


And regardless of what we do, we're probably looking at new characters (or at least revised versions of ones we already have), new accents (are we likely to be German?), and new costumes (which, fortunately, many of us already have).


What might be helpful to know is what sort of other acts will be performing at this faire, since we don't want to find that we're duplicating someone's show. I somehow suspect we will have plenty to talk about on Saturday. . .

10:43 am
January 5, 2010


Fritz

Moderator

posts 41

8

Uh, re: the cookware, I meant to say “half a millennium”, not “half a century.” If only!

12:09 pm
January 5, 2010


Alena

Moderator

New Hampshire

posts 163

9

Those are great thoughts from everyone! What excites me most is how thoughtful we all get to be, even this early in a possibility. Some follow-up thoughts from me:

I love that people are concerned about the quality of what we can put out there given the short time and limited funds etc., I think that is great. That being said, I think it would be ok to put out something a little smaller in scope while still being high quality. If the faire organizers do not want it to look the same then the big things to me that are right out are the tents, the firebox, the costumes and the pikes. Luckily the costumes and the pikes are indellibly tied to the 16th century Holy Roman Empire, so by picking a new timeperiod and possibly a new geography we have to change weapons and costumes. The bigger problem for me is the tents. Tents are expensive, and Autumn Tree Productions, which owns 3 tents can not go out and buy different ones just because someone asks. So in my mind if we are to accomplish a new setting we will need to dedicate some money to different covered space, and probably not get as much variety for 2010, so that means a smaller space. The good thing about a smaller space is, we need less to fill it.


I would like to do a weaving/sewing demo this time instead of a cooking demo. That does not mean that we would not have a fire and cook food, it just means that it would not be an entire scheduled meal. It would mean those of us interested in weaving, sewing, embroidery might actually get to demonstrate it during the faire. I would love to show off tablet weaving, and maybe help with some embroidery. That would put the fire in a less prominent place, and be really different from what we do for CTRF.


I have less strongly held opinions on a different martial demo, but swords, armor, and bows are all things that I could probably contribute to, depending on which portrayal is finally picked.


Alena

2:29 pm
January 5, 2010


Gustav

Moderator

posts 265

10

As Alena already said, great thoughts! Keep 'em coming!

I don't want to reinvent the wheel, but I do want us to look different. As Alena said, same tents, same overall look. I think that's the biggest thing. I like a fire as critical part of an encampment look, but if we don't do a cooking demo, we can center the camp around it instead of putting it out in front of everyone. I also don't want two seperate events where we tie people down to camp for hours on end. So, unless we're going to just have the men do the cooking, I'm going to nix the cooking demo.

If we do medicine, I'd like to take a non-battlefield approach. This might also vary depending on who/what we protray.

Here are some demo ideas of things we don't currently do (some said above):

Sewing/weaving

Spinning

Leatherwork

Woodwork - carving, furniture, etc

Fletching (arrow making)

Bowyery

Woodcraft - chopping wood, lashing, knots, etc

Archery

Sword/combat - I think we can work up an ATACC style demo appropriate to the fighting styles of the day. Since these predominately involve sword & shield, I'll admit to being excited about them. I haven't gotten to teach sword and board in years! :)

Other thoughts? I think we try for 2 demos, one big and boisterous  like our weapons demo. Any of the martial demos fit this bill, not sure if the others do so well. Maybe some of the woodworking stuff. Maybe making a bench or something over the course of the run? Might also be a fun way for us to learn how to do these things. :) Just need to find or make some appropraite tools.

Some of the above take more stuff that we don't have right now, some of it some of us might. I think we need to keep what we can turn out in mind, but we also need to pick something we'll have a good time doing so that needs to weigh in to this decision. IE, if I'm into something, I will put in the effort to learn about it. If not, I won't work as hard for an exciting demo.

All that said, I actually find most of the ideas up there interesting. I'm leaning against things that tie us to the plot. And we need to keep the focus on historical accuracy, since that's what we do. That's tougher if we go the “outlaw” route as there's not a lot of basis for that.

I'm going to through another option to Alena's list:

Men-at-arms - basically the crusader idea, but if there has been disruption in the area or if there's a traveling nobleman (either ours or Prince John) then we have good reason for them to be present.

Pros -

- swords and armour

- women follow. either wives or support staff for the unit. Remember, Landsknecht don't have an exclusive on a wagon train. Professional soldiers travel with their families everywhere

- Similar to Landsknecht in the structure, very different in the way it looks, the behavior, tactics, etc

- likely to be put up or fed locally, thus explaining the reduced number of tents, etc

- Could be either armoured, or archers, or a combination of both.

Cons -

- Maybe too close to Landsknecht?

- may get dragged into plot, or asked why we aren't more involved. Of course, if we don't work for Nottingham, it's not our problem

4:37 pm
January 5, 2010


Wulfram

Member

Connecticut

posts 142

11

I have to confess that I did attend a bow making seminar a few years back, and most of it is still fresh in my mind! Now, having lacked the time to even try to do this I am more then willing to either do this (since I've been needing a bow for a while now…) or pass on what I've learned to someone else. If we split the time between making a bow and making the arrows, by the time the run is over there should, in theory, be a completed bow with arrows; if we only have one person doing it. The only thing I'm not sure about is the bow string.

I'm all for doing different demos then what we do as landsknecht, seeing that would help add to some semblance of separation to our split personalities.

As a thought for something else to do, I remember in our little “debrief” from the fall CTRF that we were thinking of having a “soldier camp” for adults. IF we going with the Men-at-arms idea would this make sense? I know you're mentioning something about ATACC, but I have no clue what that stands for, so if that thought is the same thing, my bad.

Keeping away from the plot line would probably be to our benefit, it's just less of a hassle all around. Keeping our interactions with the cast the way we did as a Landsknecht unit is probably for the best.

This isn't the most organized post, but there's the few ideas I've got. I'm still wrapping my head around this, I'm sure it'll clear up when talking with everyone on Saturday.

11:12 am
January 6, 2010


Alena

Moderator

New Hampshire

posts 163

12

ATACC stand for Autumn Tree Armored Combat Company. It is Stephen's sword and armor troupe that does full armored combat and educational demos along with it.


Here is the link for more: http://autumntree.net/atacc.htm


Alena

12:22 pm
January 6, 2010


Fritz

Moderator

posts 41

13

One additional area that we didn't touch on at all at CTRF last year (and an area that I know at least a few among us have enthusiasm and talent for) is music. It's not too difficult to pull together some period songs and that sort of thing, and music always draws an audience.


Period musical instruments also draw an audience. Anyone have any of those? Wink

2:08 am
January 7, 2010


Betsy

Member

posts 80

14

I will be having finals and graduation during the Robinhood faire so I can't do much to help but I hope to be more active in this next year. Regarding the noble household the people with the lowest budgets could perhaps be servants. I don't have any period skills but would love to learn from anybody willing to teach me. I used to be somewhat decent with a bow and arrow but that was modern not period. 

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